Open Air Pullover from Metropolitan Knits

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diamora24 wrote
on Oct 18, 2013 3:28 PM

I love the Open Air pullover from Melissa Wehrle's new book, but unfortunately just can't seem to make it work out.  Any help would be appreciated.  The problem is in trying to work the first few rows of the overlapping layers (just above the rib section).   I have tried it three ways and nothing seems to work.  Do I have to tie on another skein of yarn someplace, or maybe use a third needle?  I have tried working across the stitches on the back needle first, then finishing the round with the stitches on the front needle,  I have also done the reverse: knitting the front needle stitches first, then the sweater back, then the back needle stitches across the front.  In either case, the longer back needle could not reach the stitches for the following wrong side row.  I even tried knitting the stitches from the front and back stitches alternately, and then the stitches across the back of the sweater--in which case I did not end up in the correct place for the next row.  

I would hate to have to abandon this lovely project, but I am totally stuck.  I would be so grateful if someone could enlighten me on how to proceed.  Thank you so much!

Diane

 

 

 

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on Oct 19, 2013 12:36 AM

Don't have access to this pattern.  Could you include the portion of the pattern where you stop the ribbing and add the extra stitches for the overlap.  Need to be able to visualize what happens.  Are you knitting the body on a circular needle?

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salmonmac wrote
on Oct 19, 2013 4:24 AM

I don't have the pattern either and a quote of just the lines that Timberwolf has suggested would be helpful. The Ravelry notes seem to indicate that you do need another needle (and they also state that the first few rows are a challenge).

"Above the ribbing, the center front stitches are doubled, and half the stitches in the doubled section are transferred to a separate needle for the underlap of the surplice front. "

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/open-air-pullover

Very good looking sweater.

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diamora24 wrote
on Oct 19, 2013 11:56 AM

Instructions are as follows (working in the round on 24" circular needles).  I've included the rib instructions also because they include the faux placket placement.

LOWER BODY RIB SECTION  was worked over 225 stitches.  The round begins at left side at start of the front stitches.

  [K2,p2] 7 times, pm, work next 7 sts for faux placket as [k1, p1] 3 times, k1, pm, *p2, k2; rep from * to last 2 sts, p.2.

Work sts as they appear (knit the knits and purl the pearls until piece measures 5-1/2"

LOWER BODY (using 24" circular needles):

1.  DEC RND:  Removing m on each side of faux placket as you come to them, k 3, [k2 tog k7] 24 times, k2tog, k4--200 sts.

2. NEXT RND: K 24, work k1f&b 52 times, k24, pm for right side, k100 back sts--252 sts.  Arrange sts. for working back & forth in rows as full: (K24 to beg of k1f&b sts, and temporarily drop working yarn.  With shorter (16") cir needle held in front of work, [sl next st to shorter cir needle, sl foll st to end of longer cir needle] 52 times.  With the shorter cir needle dangling in front of work, return 52 slipped to left tip of longer cir needle, and knit across them--76 sts each front; 100 back sts; 52 sts at right front edge are on shorter cir needle.

Turn work so WS is facing.

NEXT ROW;  (WS) P 76 left front sts to side m, sl m, p100 back sts, sl m, purl to last 5 right front sts, work neck edge (see Stitch Guide) over 5 sts.

NEXT ROW: (RS) Work neck edge over first 5 right front sts, knit to last 5 sts., work neck edge over last 5 left front sts.

NEXT ROW: (WS) Work neck edge over first 5 left front sts, purl to last 5 sts, work neck edge over last 5 right front sts--piece measure 6" from CO

NECK EDGE STITCH GUIDE (worked over 5 sts):  AT BEG OF BOTH RS AND W ROWS: [Sl 1 pwise wyf, k1] 2 times, sl 1pwise wyf.  AT END OF BOTH RS AND WIS ROWS:  [K1, sly poise wyf] 2 times, k1.

Pattern instructions for shaping bust and neck follow, specifying that both circular needles should be used until you can comfortably transfer all the stitches to the longer circular needle.  

Hope I didn't make any mistakes in transcribing, and hope this makes more sense to you than it does to me.  I really appreciate your willingness to help.

 

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diamora24 wrote
on Oct 19, 2013 12:49 PM

Thank you so much for offering to help.  I have posted the relevant instructions online in response to Timberwolf.  Hope you will find them useful.

 

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salmonmac wrote
on Oct 20, 2013 5:14 AM

The problem is the 52st overlap. Ideally you would like to have all the sts on the same long cable needle. Starting at the left tip you would have the right front overlap, right front, back, left front, left overlap. Because of the overlap, you don't have enough stretch to get the right  tip of the working needle to the left tip to knit the stitches.

You could line up the stitches in the order above on the needle and then pull out some of the cable close to the needle (as in magic loop) so that you have enought play in the needles to knit. You would do it here:

2. NEXT RND: K 24, work k1f&b 52 times, k24, pm for right side, k100 back sts--252 sts. Arrange sts. for working back & forth in rows as full: (K24 to beg of k1f&b sts, and temporarily drop working yarn. With shorter (16") cir needle held in front of work, [sl next st to shorter cir needle, sl foll st to end of longer cir needle] 52 times. With the shorter cir needle dangling in front of work, return 52 slipped to left tip of longer cir needle, and knit across them--76 sts each front; 100 back sts; 52 sts at right front edge are on shorter cir needle.

Turn work so WS is facing.

NEXT ROW; (WS) P 76 left front sts to side m, sl m, p100 back sts, sl m, purl 24 right front sts, purl sts from 16" circular that is dangling in front to last 5 right front sts, work neck edge (see Stitch Guide) over 5 sts.

Continue working back and forth on these sts, pulling out the cable to give you extra play until you've done enough rows that you don't need the magic loop.

The other way to do it is the way the designer implies which is to use the two circular needles (the longer one and the 16" that is dangling in front). Work the WS row as given in the pattern and when you get to the end of the longer cable, drop that needle and pick up the smaller 16" needle. Knit the 52sts on it using only that needle. Don't knit from the 16" needle onto the larger circ. Just use the two ends of the 16" needle. Becareful not to get a hole where you switch between working with the larger and then the smaller needle.

Sorry for the very, very long reply.

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diamora24 wrote
on Oct 20, 2013 9:32 AM

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply.  I am not sure, however, that the problem has been completely solved--at least not for me.  To tell the truth, I've never done a magic loop and would actually prefer to follow the designer's instructions, if possible.  After giving the problem lots of thought, I have become convinced that the designer intends the following sequence:  Beginning where the instructions say, NEXT RND, I proceeded to K 24 stitches beginning at the left side marker.  Then I encountered the two sets of needles.  Since Melissa says in her notes that she wanted to work both overlapping layers at the same time, I knit the stitches from the front and back needles alternately: first a stitch from the front needle, then a stitch from the back needle, until I had completed the 52 stitches on each needle.  Then I proceeded knitting across the remaining 24 stitches which end at the right front, then the 100 back stitches.  This put me back at the beginning marker, which seems like where I would want to be.  But then the instructions say to turn the work so that WS is facing and to purl 76 left front sts to side m, etc.  The problem is that once I turn the work, I really would have to KNIT, not purl, across the 76 left front stitches.  If I purled, I would be working again across the back stitches, and my working yarn would now be on the left needle rather than on the right where it had been the previous row.   I am beginning to wonder if there could be an error in the pattern instructions.    If so, how can I report a problem to the designer or publisher?       

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salmonmac wrote
on Oct 20, 2013 1:04 PM

I completely understand not wanting to deviate from the pattern directions. Let me make sure I understand what you did when you knit the front section with one stitch from the front and one from the back. Do you now have all the sts on one circular needle with the front and back 104 sts (52+52) alternating with each other? This isn't correct. If all the sts are on one needle this way, you won't have the opening in the front (like a cardigan) and that's why you wind up on the incorrect side when you turn. Melissa's notes want the overlapping fronts knit at the same time, not the sts.

Go back to the row after you did the kfb to give 104sts on the front. You've just knit the 24 side sts at the left side and dropped the working yarn at the end of those 24sts while you divided up the 104sts onto the two circs. Leave the 52sts on the small circ dangling in front and slip the back 52sts to the left tip. Now you can knit across those 52ts. Now turn to the WS and purl back across the same 52sts and continue to purlthe left front 24, the back 100 and the right front 24 sts. Here is where the directions are missing or a llittle vague but in order to work the 52sts on the 16" circular, you'll need to leave the larger circular to dangle and knit the 52sts using both ends of the small circular. You'll end with the 5sts of the "neck edge" pattern. (If you knit the sts onto the larger circular, you'll get into the problems with stretching the needle tips into position to knit.) Turn again (RS) and work the 5st neck edge sts and continue to knit around.

Continue the pattern from here and you're on the correct side at each row. When you've completed enough rows, you'll be able to work the sts of the 16" cicrc onto the larger needle and keep going. It's as the Ravelry notes from Melissa state:  "The first row or two is a little challenging, but well worth the finished outcome."  It would be so much easier to show you how to do this. I know how frustrating this kind of thing can be. It's happened to me too.

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diamora24 wrote
on Oct 21, 2013 4:41 PM

To answer your question, I actually did manage to keep the stitches on two needles (using both ends of the small circular needle), but since I was using  the same strand of yarn to knit alternately between front needle and back needle, the stitches were still kind of joined--just on separate needles.  In any event, this approach didn't allow me to follow the instructions for the next row, so I'm pretty sure this was not right.

I think my problem in understanding Melissa's instructions is in the paragraph before it says to "Turn work so WS is facing."  I understood that I was supposed to knit a complete round including both fronts (in an order that I couldn't understand) and the back.  You are saying that I should turn the work after knitting only the 52 remaining sts on the back needle and that I should then purl an entire round.  I have not had a chance to try this yet, but it just may solve the problem.  I will let you know how it turns out.  Of course please let me know if I have misinterpreted your instructions in any way.

Again, thank you so much for all your help.  It is great to have access to advice from an experienced knitter. 

 

 

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salmonmac wrote
on Oct 22, 2013 4:11 AM

" You are saying that I should turn the work after knitting only the 52 remaining sts on the back needle and that I should then purl an entire round"

Yes, that's right. When you slip those sts back to the tip of the left needle, your working yarn will be at the tip of the right needle and you'll be able to knit those 52sts. Now you'll be at the left edge of the sweater (at the end of the row) and ready to turn.

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diamora24 wrote
on Oct 22, 2013 8:29 AM

Actually, I end up at the right edge of the sweater.  Per pattern instructions, "the end begins at left side at start of the front sts."  So when I knit those first 24 sts before dividing onto 2 needles, I was at the left side front.  Then I knit the remaining 52sts on the back needle, which brought me to the right side marker.  That is where I am now.  Maybe that is not a problem, but it does mean that I have knit only half a round at this point (before turning).

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diamora24 wrote
on Oct 22, 2013 11:45 AM

Correction and possible solution: after knitting the first 24 initial stitches plus 52 stitches across the back needle, I end up where the stitches on the front needle also end.  If I turn the work at this point so that WS is facing, I am in the proper position to knit the "NEXT ROW."  But then I am not knitting the back stitches and the second set of front stitches, as the pattern seems to indicate I should.

However, if I knit across the stitches on the front needle first (the right front), then the back stitches, then the stitches of the left front  (beginning with the 24 stitches at left front and ending where the stitches on the front needle also end (24 stitches from the right edge), then I am also in the correct position to turn my work and begin the next row.   At least this is the case if my thinking is clear on this.  I am going to try this and am hoping it will work out.  

 

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salmonmac wrote
on Oct 23, 2013 6:08 AM

"Correction and possible solution: after knitting the first 24 initial stitches plus 52 stitches across the back needle, I end up where the stitches on the front needle also end. If I turn the work at this point so that WS is facing, I am in the proper position to knit the "NEXT ROW."..." Yes, that's correct! You're at the left edge. You're in position now to work the WS row which is to purl across the 75 left front sts, purl the back 100, purl the right front to the last 5sts which are the neck edge pattern on the right edge (the front overlap).

You won't be working the back and front overlaps together with each other. The front overlap (on the 16" circ) will start the RS rows and the back underlap will start the WS rows. I think that when the pattern says that the overlaps are worked at the same time, it means that you continue from left to right edges (or vice versa) on the same row, not that you work the overlap sts together.

 

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diamora24 wrote
on Oct 24, 2013 8:25 AM

SUCCESS!  With your help, I was finally able to understand and visualize what I was supposed to be doing.   I was able to knit the first several rows of the overlaps without a problem and am now working on the bust and neck shaping.  What is more, I can now see that the pattern instructions make perfect sense.  Thank you so very much for your support and guidance through this process.

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salmonmac wrote
on Oct 25, 2013 3:12 AM

Delighted! Your patience and perseverance is fabulous. Enjoy this very lovely sweater.

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