Official Bella Blouse Knit-Along: "Hey, I'm adding sleeves!" Forum

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Sewesie wrote
on Aug 14, 2011 12:51 PM

Thank you for the links - those are really helpful tutorials for use generally.

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imalulu wrote
on Aug 14, 2011 4:29 PM

Has anyone gotten as far as knitting or even designing their sleeves, yet?  I putzed around with trying to knit the neck bands right onto the front, but was unhappy with the results....so now I'm finishing up the upper part of the front piece.  I'll be either knitting the neck bands next, or designing my sleeve.  So wondered if anyone else is that far.

Lynne aka imalulu

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Posts 80
oxid8 wrote
on Aug 15, 2011 9:14 AM

Lynne,

I finished up my front and back except for the neck and am in the process of designing sleeves. So far I am knitting the bands for the bottom of the sleeve.  My band will have 9 leaf repeats because my repeats are about 1 1/4 inches long.  I measured my daughter's arm at 10 inches and added 1 inch for ease.  I plan on picking up 55 stitches for the underarm and decreasing to a a bind off at the top of the cap of 13 stitches (right around 1/4 of 10 inches).  I am still in the process of figuring the rest.  I just need a little more time.  I should add that I am making short sleeves so my lace band will be the part below the underarm bind off.

Shanna

 

 

imalulu:

Has anyone gotten as far as knitting or even designing their sleeves, yet?  I putzed around with trying to knit the neck bands right onto the front, but was unhappy with the results....so now I'm finishing up the upper part of the front piece.  I'll be either knitting the neck bands next, or designing my sleeve.  So wondered if anyone else is that far.

Lynne aka imalulu

 

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Posts 143
imalulu wrote
on Aug 15, 2011 11:55 AM

Hi Shanna....are you making short sleeves, like above the elbow?  I think I'm going to do just below the elbow length.  I'll be finishing the front today, in just a little bit.  I think I'm going to sew each shoulder seam and baste a side seam and take a look at the armhole hole!!  I may knit the neck bands while I think about my sleeve.  Still a bit scared as to number of sts to allow, etc.  Lynne aka imalulu

 

oxid8:

Lynne,

I finished up my front and back except for the neck and am in the process of designing sleeves. So far I am knitting the bands for the bottom of the sleeve.  My band will have 9 leaf repeats because my repeats are about 1 1/4 inches long.  I measured my daughter's arm at 10 inches and added 1 inch for ease.  I plan on picking up 55 stitches for the underarm and decreasing to a a bind off at the top of the cap of 13 stitches (right around 1/4 of 10 inches).  I am still in the process of figuring the rest.  I just need a little more time.  I should add that I am making short sleeves so my lace band will be the part below the underarm bind off.

Shanna

 

 

imalulu:

Has anyone gotten as far as knitting or even designing their sleeves, yet?  I putzed around with trying to knit the neck bands right onto the front, but was unhappy with the results....so now I'm finishing up the upper part of the front piece.  I'll be either knitting the neck bands next, or designing my sleeve.  So wondered if anyone else is that far.

Lynne aka imalulu

 

Top 50 Contributor
Posts 80
oxid8 wrote
on Aug 16, 2011 9:58 AM

Lynne,

I am making them above the elbow.  Later today when I have time I will go into detail.

Shanna

 

 

imalulu:

Hi Shanna....are you making short sleeves, like above the elbow?  I think I'm going to do just below the elbow length.  I'll be finishing the front today, in just a little bit.  I think I'm going to sew each shoulder seam and baste a side seam and take a look at the armhole hole!!  I may knit the neck bands while I think about my sleeve.  Still a bit scared as to number of sts to allow, etc.  Lynne aka imalulu

 

oxid8:

Lynne,

I finished up my front and back except for the neck and am in the process of designing sleeves. So far I am knitting the bands for the bottom of the sleeve.  My band will have 9 leaf repeats because my repeats are about 1 1/4 inches long.  I measured my daughter's arm at 10 inches and added 1 inch for ease.  I plan on picking up 55 stitches for the underarm and decreasing to a a bind off at the top of the cap of 13 stitches (right around 1/4 of 10 inches).  I am still in the process of figuring the rest.  I just need a little more time.  I should add that I am making short sleeves so my lace band will be the part below the underarm bind off.

Shanna

 

 

imalulu:

Has anyone gotten as far as knitting or even designing their sleeves, yet?  I putzed around with trying to knit the neck bands right onto the front, but was unhappy with the results....so now I'm finishing up the upper part of the front piece.  I'll be either knitting the neck bands next, or designing my sleeve.  So wondered if anyone else is that far.

Lynne aka imalulu

 

 

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Maxey@2 wrote
on Aug 16, 2011 4:43 PM

Hi:  Knitting the Bella Blouse too but have just now finished the bottom band.  Ready to start the front now and I want to add sleeves as well.  Any help you can give me will be appreiciated.  Fairly new knitter.  Nothing like just jumping in and figuring it out as you go.  Maxey

Maxey

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Posts 27
Sewesie wrote
on Aug 18, 2011 11:14 AM

I'm getting near to starting sleeves.  If I'm knitting in the round, do I need to use a different needle size from the body?  I read somewhere that  gauge is different using circular needles.

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Posts 80
oxid8 wrote
on Aug 18, 2011 4:17 PM

The only way to know is test it out.  If the gauge is the same then use  the same needles.  If you are knitting your sleeves in the round until the cap shaping it would be the same needles as well.

Shanna

 

Sewesie:

I'm getting near to starting sleeves.  If I'm knitting in the round, do I need to use a different needle size from the body?  I read somewhere that  gauge is different using circular needles.

 

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Posts 80
oxid8 wrote
on Aug 18, 2011 4:38 PM

1321.img021.pdf

0247.img020.pdf

First of all I am inserting some scanned pages at 150dpi and not changing the size.  Since they don't show until I post, I apologize if they are huge.  I will try to walk you through my sleeve process.  Ask questions if you don't get it and I'll see if I can answer clearer.

Most of this comes from the article in Interweave Knits Winter 2007 by Pam Allen.

To figure side B I take 1/2 of my initial bind off and subtract 1/2 of my final bind off.

61 stitches picked up from 9 leaf repeats (11.25") - 10 for 2" of inital bind offs = 51 divided by 5(stitches per inch) to get 10.2" divided by 2 =5.1"

My final bind off started as 16 stitches.  11.25" divided by 4 for 1/4 = 2.8125 or 14 stitches.  I decided to do 16 stitches so 16 divided by 5(stitches per inch) =3.2 divided by 2 =1.6"

5.1-1.6=3.5 (side B)

To figure side C(diagonal) I take 1/2 of my armhole curve(shoulders sewn together and first bind offs not counted) and subtract 1/2 of the final bind off.

I measured my armhole curve at 20" - 2" for first bind offs.  18 divided by 2 = 9.

9 - 1.6(from above) =7.4 (side C)

From the theorem whose name I can't spell off the top of my head I see that A squared plus b squared equals C squared.  This means that C squared subtract B squared equals A squared.

7.4 x 7.4 = 54.76  3.5 x 3.5 = 12.25

54.76-12.25 = 42.51  The square root of 42.51 = 6.52" (side A)

6.52" x 7(rows per inch) = 45.64 or 46 rows.

I need to go to a school open house.  When I get back I'll post the rest of the story.

Shanna

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oxid8 wrote
on Aug 18, 2011 7:15 PM

Okay I'm back.

Now you will notice A is roughly 6 1/2 inches.  My sleeve would be 6 1/2 inches plus the band which is about 2 5/8 inches wide in my case.  This thing would probably go down to my daughter's elbows.  This is not the look I envisioned.  I want the band to be as close to the initial bind off as possible with about 4 inches of cap height above it.  By the way, I drew that last one out before I figured out it was too long.  I didn't knit it up though.  What to do now?  I can reverse the formula so that C (7.4 inches) squared subtract A (4 inches) squared = B squared This changes my cast on or in this case my pick up amount.  I tried picking up 78 stitches out of 90.  It looked good on paper but for some reason the measurement around the cap(I knitted this one up) was about an inch short.  It also had a gathered effect from picking up more stitches than needed to lay flat.  Cute but not working.   I could try A squared plus B squared = C squared.  A=4" and B=a number based on final bind offs and my best pick up ratio of 2 out of 3 or 61 stitches.  This alters the length of C but that means reknitting the armhole. Yikes!  I put the sweater on my daughter and decided that even though it had rows equal to 7 1/2 inches armhole depth that it looked a little long.  I'm not sure if that is stretch effect or what.  I can take off 1 inch on the front and back and it will still have enough ease.  Yes I am going to reknit the armhoIes and take out 8 rows so my neck shaping starts on a knit row.

I decided my final bind off could use a few more bound off stitches so I am going to bind off 21 stitches(4.2 inches)(odd because my initial bind off is odd so I can have even decrease rows).  This is more than the 1/4 of 10 inches plus 1.25 inches of ease for the arm circumference.  In looking at the Knitting Plus book 2 to 5 inches for a final bind off is typical.

What this means is that my pickup and initial bind off will remain the same.  This ratio just looks good.  Changing the armhole curve makes C a smaller measurement as does increasing the final bind off.  Increasing the final bind off also makes B a smaller measurement.  If C and B are smaller then it follows A will be.  I did plug my new numbers into the equation of C squared subtract A squared  to get B squared to see if the stitch count even came close.  If I didn't worry about how many stitches to pick up (or cast on) I could have added more before the initial bind off.  This new sleeve is the chart I scanned in.  I knitted it up and it measured great.  The thing about it now is I am wondering if the sleeve would look better with more ease around the arm.  I will knit up the second one with 1 more leaf repeat and pick up 7 more stitches for a total of 68 stitches.  I'll recalculate once again and knit it up and post a picture of both.  The sleeves don't take too long so it is worth it too me. 

The cap height should not be a big deal for those of you who are doing longer sleeves as long as you are happy with your armhole depth and the arm ease.  For comparison the 3/4 length sleeve by laughing star fits into an armhole that has a depth of 6".  If her gauge is right on then we could calculate the armhole curve should we wish too.  Her sleeve at the point of initial bind off is 64 stitches or 12.8 inches.  Her cap height is 44 rows or 6.285 inches starting with the 1st initial bind off row and she final binds off 18 stitches or 3.6 inches.  I am going to post one more time so you don't have to read large amounts in one post.

Shanna

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Posts 80
oxid8 wrote
on Aug 18, 2011 8:17 PM

One last thing and then off to play with my sleeves.  I am going to calculate my decrease rate on the cap using something called the Magic Formula.  It is spelled out in Stitch and *** Superstar on page 133 and it is also used in the book by Shirley Paden.  She gives credit to a book Sweaters 101 by Cheryl Bruner.  This (the Stitch and *** formula) works with numbers 2 and above.  If your numbers result in less that 2 then talk to me if you don't have access to the references because it means you have to decrease on purl rows too.  Of course you can always play with pencil, eraser, and graph paper too.

Just before final bind off I want to decrease two inches worth of stitches over 1/2 inch.  In my case this would mean 10 stitches over 3.5 rows.  I opted for 4 rows and a bind off of 2 stitches each row.  My inital bind off was 1 inch each end for a total of 10 stitches.  61 stitches to start with subtract final bind off of 21, initial bind off of 10, and 8 for top shaping gives me a total of 22 stitches left to decrease.  This is divided  by 2 because I will be making decreases at both ends of the row.  So I have 11 decrease rows.  I take my total rows of of 37 and subtract the first because I wanted to work even 1 row before the initial bind off row.  This gives me 36 rows.  I will subtract my two initial bind off rows and the four top bind off rows which leaves me with 30 rows to work in those 11 decrease rows.  Here comes the fun part.Stick out tongue  You may look like this before your done.Angry  I just about did.

You take the number of rows available and divide by the number if rows needed to be decreased.  30 divided by 11 = 2.7272etc.  If it is an even number hooray! your done.  If it is odd round it down to the nearest even number.  If it is even with a decimal then drop the decimal.  My answer would be 2.  This is my smaller number.  Add 2 to this number to get your larger number.  My larger number is 4.  Take your smaller number and times it by the number of decrease rows needed.  2 x 11 = 22.  Take the number of rows available and subtract your answer.  30 - 22 = 8.  Divide this answer by 2.  8 / 2 =4.  This is how far apart you will space your larger number or decrease 1 stitch each end RS row 4 times every 4 rows.  This will take up a total of 16 rows.  Take the answer of 8/2 =4 and subtract it from the number of needed decrease rows.  11 - 4 = 7.  This is how many times you will decrease by your smaller number.  Decrease 1 stitch at each end of a RS row 7 times.  This uses a total of 14 rows.  Check yourself.  14 plus 16 equals 30.  Now you can divide this up any way that makes your curve look great.  I did 3 2 row decreases, my 4 4 row decreases, and 4 2 row decreases.  You should be able to see this on my scan of the sleeve graphed out.  My middle row should say 37 rows - 1 for work even(not initial bind off) for a total of 36.  I am going to include a scan of the way Shirley Paden did it.  It gives the same results.  This would be so much easier if I could just sit down with everyone in person but oh well.

Shanna

0333.img022.pdf

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imalulu wrote
on Aug 21, 2011 1:53 PM

Shanna...I've been calculating for the past several hours...reading your posts and referring to the Pam Allen article.  I think I have it.  But I have to go get ready to go somewhere and will have to re-visit this probably tomorrow. 

I have no idea what you are meaning in your very last post about

 "This (the Stitch and *** formula) works with numbers 2 and above".  Can you explain this?

I will probably run my numbers by you, if you have time and mind set to "review" them.  Otherwise....I will knit what I think will work and see what happens!!

Lynne aka imalulu

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Posts 80
oxid8 wrote
on Aug 22, 2011 9:48 AM

Lynne,

I would be happy to review them.  

The last post was talking about a formula to use to space your decreases on the cap without using pencil and eraser a lot.  In my case I still seem to need them a lot.  As long as your number is 2 or above the decreases can be spaced on RS rows.  The second sleeve I tried did not follow that formula.  I had 15 decrease rows and only 26 rows to decrease in.  26 divided by 2 = 13.  13 is not divisible by 15 so this told me that I would not be able to decrease every other row.  You need to divide the number of rows available by two to use the expanded formula (the one that gives you decreases every other row) in Shirley Paden's book.  So now I take 26 and divide it by 13 which equals 1.7333 etc.  I subtract 1 which leaves me .7333 etc.  I multiply this by by the number of needed decrease rows of 15 and get 10.999 etc.  I round this to the nearest whole number of 11.  This tells me I can decrease every other row (like decrease on a knit and work the purl even) 11 times for a total of 22 rows.  I then subtract 22 from 26 (the number of rows available) to get an answer of 4.  I decrease 4 times on every row.  I distributed mine as three decreases every row, 11 decreases every other row, and 1 decrease every row until my top 1/2" of bind off shaping.  I tried this with Shirley Paden's method and it gave me the same answer.

Hope this helps.

Shanna

 

imalulu:

Shanna...I've been calculating for the past several hours...reading your posts and referring to the Pam Allen article.  I think I have it.  But I have to go get ready to go somewhere and will have to re-visit this probably tomorrow. 

I have no idea what you are meaning in your very last post about

 "This (the Stitch and *** formula) works with numbers 2 and above".  Can you explain this?

I will probably run my numbers by you, if you have time and mind set to "review" them.  Otherwise....I will knit what I think will work and see what happens!!

Lynne aka imalulu

 

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Posts 143
imalulu wrote
on Aug 22, 2011 11:43 AM

Shanna...question about this....

I take my total rows of of 37 and subtract the first because I wanted to work even 1 row before the initial bind off row.  This gives me 36 rows.  

 I will subtract my two initial bind off rows

and the four top bind off rows which leaves me with 30 rows to work in those 11 decrease rows. 

Aren't these two initial bind off rows already not in the total rows because the formula is for the rows ABOVE the inital underarm bind offs????

Lynne aka imalulu

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Posts 80
oxid8 wrote
on Aug 22, 2011 12:04 PM

I was just explaining how I arrived at the total number of rows I had available to decrease on each side.  The formula is for those rows above but I am assuming someone out there is very beginner and might not think about the fact that they bound off to decrease on those rows.  I started with the total number of rows so had to subtract out those two with the others.

Shanna

 

imalulu:

Shanna...question about this....

I take my total rows of of 37 and subtract the first because I wanted to work even 1 row before the initial bind off row.  This gives me 36 rows.  

 I will subtract my two initial bind off rows

and the four top bind off rows which leaves me with 30 rows to work in those 11 decrease rows. 

Aren't these two initial bind off rows already not in the total rows because the formula is for the rows ABOVE the inital underarm bind offs????

Lynne aka imalulu

 

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